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Guild Wars

  • Genre: MMORPG
  • ESRB Rating: T
  • Platform: PC
  • Max-Party Size: 8
  • Added on: 2010-01-28 by St00f

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Viewing Topic: Guild Wars - Page 1
#0: 10-11-2010 @ 10:54:01 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1070#1070

MachVergilMachVergil

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  • Real Name:Adam
  • Joined:2010-01-22
Okay so just in case people would like a refresher, I thought I'd point to some solid articles on the Guild Wars Wiki which is my resource of choice for learning about GW and checking things out.

  • To start with, here's a page listing all the "Conditions" in the game, what they do. Note how you can see what condition is afflicting you or an ally partially based off the effect on his/her health bar. Also note how the amount of health degeneration, if any, caused by a condition is set in stone.
  • This is in contrast to "Hexes" which are non-standard debuffs that stack with each other and conditions wonderfully. Also note that the power/duration/effect of a given Hex is probably mutable based on how many points you have in a given skill.
  • Note that Armor blocks magic damage as well as physical damage in GW.
  • Armor doesn't block Health Degeneration however, and also note that health degen doesn't count as "damage" so it might not show up on that DPS reader npc in the Balthazaar Isles.
  • So you basically can think of damage is countered by Healing while health degen is countered by Health Regen


If trying to get ideas on how to optimize your build, you can always Look up your favorite skill. The skill pages, like this one for Hundred Blades shows you how it scales with each point in Swordsmanship, so you have an idea how many points you need in that attribute for it to reach your ideal effectiveness.

You can also look up every mission, Like this list of Prophecies missions to help you find out where the bonus is, or get tips on how to beat it.

You can also Compare weapon types, if that's relevant to your chosen class(es).

Anywho, hope the articles there prove helpful!
We set Wednesdays on Fire!
#1: 10-11-2010 @ 11:26:24 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1071#1071

MachVergilMachVergil

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  • Real Name:Adam
  • Joined:2010-01-22
TheoryWars (Like Theorycrafting but with less WoW). Okay so here's my logic behind doing skill builds. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about this, especially not with every class, but this logic has proven me pretty good so far so I thought I'd share it.

The first thing I want to say is I build my GW heroes to be the ultimate hybrids. It is my personal opinion that "min/maxing" for a role like one might in D&D or WoW does not do well here. Teams that consist entirely of nearly self-sufficent heroes who know how to focus fire and when to run, are more effective than those trying to run a tank and spank team. That's not to say that having a tough front liner and someone dedicated to healing/cleansing the team are bad ideas, but I don't consider them requirements to dance and no one should be forced to do it.

Instead you want to min/max towards a sort of 1-2-3 punch of skills that will decimate your foes in some way. For example, my W/E has a neat build that allows her to isolate one foe and utterly obliterate it, almost without question, at the start of the fight. She can't do that trick again for several seconds, so from there she needs to rely on AoEs and her team to finish the fight, but if the enemy has a linchpin, like a healer mob, she can guarantee it will die.

How she does this starts with the Ele spell Mark of Rogdort" which places on the hex on the target which says each time they take fire damage while the hex is active, they also suffer the burning condition. Of course what I could do then is start taking fire spells, but W's don't really have the energy regen to support spell spamming. So instead I use a flaming sword that does fire damage on each hit. So now, my auto attacks will cause that target to burn.

Next I pop Hundred Blades. This skill doesn't do bonus damage or attacks to my target, but it does cause me to do damage to my adjacent foes, meaning I build up adrenaline quickly. That adrenaline is then used to attack with Barbarous Slice which, since Hundred Blades is not a stance, inflicts the Bleeding condition as well. Burning and bleeding, my foe will have a hard time using heals or health regen alone to weather the onslaught of all that health degen PLUS my auto-attack damage, and any damage coming in from my team. Instantly, they are toast.

That only uses 3 of my skill slots, so what about the other 5? Well from there I try to round out my ability to survive and be helpful the rest of the fight. I take, Lion's Comfort so I can heal myself at the cost of adrenaline instead of my limited energy supply. It also lacks a casting time, unlike Healing Signet, so it's less likely to get interrupted. I also take, I will Survive! as conditions, like blind, are great ways to shut my tactic down. That skill gives me health regen for each condition afflicting me, allowing me to weather their durations and then resume my assault. Next I take the E's Glyph of Lesser Energy so that I can still cast Mark of Rogdort if I'm short on energy, as also take Lava Font as typically after I've killed my first guy, I am surrounded in foes and Lava Font will either deal great AoE damage around me, or cause my foes to scatter giving me a great chance to heal up for a second. Finally I take the Rez Signet so that I can raise mission critical party members in a pinch, like that healer henchmen I'm relying on to rez my party mates should they fall.

So, the big bullet points to why this build works great are such:
  1. All of these skills are either Swordsmanship, Fire Magic, or Strength (the glyph is technically "energy storage" but as a E secondary i can't take points in that). This means that my entire build can focus on only 3 stats to take, and if I am smart I'll grab a strength-dependant shield to go with it. I max swordsmanship, then grab strength, then fire magic.
  2. The warrior skills are very energy light in cost, relying more on adrenaline, which frees up my energy for my much more costly Elementalist skills.
  3. Though I still lack a way to effectively counter hexes, the build gives me a way to heal myself and counter conditions, which means I'm fairly self-sufficient rather than a burden to our healer.
  4. The build allows me to constantly re-apply burning with each sword swing, so the chance my foe will cleans out of it and the bleed is very low.


This is just one of several ways I could have made my W/E work. I easily could have built for synergy with another element, making her attack faster, or giving her ABSURD AMOUNTS OF ARMOR from earth magic. I also could have gone an even more Warrior based build, taking only the occasional Ele skill to add a little AoE flavor.

Is the build perfect? Hell no. I'm still very weak to hexes, and though I can outlast conditions, I still can't clear them, so I have to wait out their effects which is not great. I still work my best when in a team that includes a Monk with the ability to remove hexes, and some dedicated ranged DPS who can pick the foes apart while I'm in their face laying them low. I've had great synergy working with Steve's Ele too, as my Mark of Rogdort sets off all the fire skills he's throwing at the same target, and he often takes Shield of Regeneration to keep me up while I'm taking damage so he can burn foes.

So in summary, I picked a skill (or skills) and built around them, and then built to further my chances to successfully execute that synergy and survive in the front lines. I use a similar method with my E/R who uses her fire spells to destroy and her Ranger skills to make her difficult to kill through evasions and health regen. My Assassin uses dagger combos to unleash damage, various assassin spells to give her healing or mobility, and then relies on her monk skills to clear conditions that stop her from being able to do her job.

This post was edited by machvergil on October 11, 2010, 2:29 pm


We set Wednesdays on Fire!
#2: 10-13-2010 @ 10:47:45 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1083#1083

RenairenRenairen

  • Real Name:Dave
  • Joined:2010-09-01
Funny, I was just thinking of posting a 'WAT DO I DO?!' thread. So thanks for this. I'm probably going to pick up the GW1 sometime this week on Steam, the trilogy plus the new expansion.
#3: 10-13-2010 @ 03:17:46 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1084#1084

MachVergilMachVergil

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  • Real Name:Adam
  • Joined:2010-01-22
Funny, I was just thinking of posting a 'WAT DO I DO?!' thread. So thanks for this. I'm probably going to pick up the GW1 sometime this week on Steam, the trilogy plus the new expansion.


Woo! More people to adventure across Tyria with!

To a starting out player I'd offer up the following additional suggestions:

  • Dual class is the order of the day in Guild Wars. You can change your secondary class after you get a certain point in the game, but you are stuck with your primary unless you roll a new character, so put some thought into your primary class. Your primary class determines how your character looks, determines the stats of his/her armor, effects their base energy (mana) regeneration rate, and gives them a special attribute that only primary-versions of the class can have. For example, Warriors-primaries have "Strength" which gives all of their auto-attacks armor-penetration. Assassins have "Critical Strikes" which increases their chance to crit and gives them bonus energy for doing so. Monks have "Divine Favor" which increases the amount healed of every healing spell they cast. For that reason, when thinking of your dual class combo, be sure you pick the class you want to lean more heavily on as your primary.

    You can go here to learn more on each of the classes.
  • There are four campaigns to Guild Wars: Prophecies (or the core Campaign), Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of the North. Though there are 3 "expansions," only Eye of North is really a expansion in the classical sense. Factions and NightFall are both more stand-alone campaigns which can be played completely on their own from level 1 to finish, or as new stories for your max-level characters to go to for new content. GW:EotN (or GW:EN as we like to call it), is the only one that recommends you be max-level to do it.

    However, despite the fact you can play Factions and Nightfall from level 1, I recommend you start with Prophecies, unless you are really keen on playing one of the classes from those expansions (Assassin & Ritualist from Factions, Paragon & Dervish from Nightfall). Both of those are harder campaigns than Prophecies (Factions very much so), though they will get you to max level in a mere fraction of the time, so it depends on your tolerance for "Baptism in Fire" I guess.

    That being said the "Welcome to Vanilla WoW" disclaimer also needs to be put on Prophecies. They did it first, and at this point, in a lot of ways, it shows. Much like how BC and WotLK content is more engaging than vanillia WoW's, Prophecies content is significantly worse paced. Still, I find it to be a lot of fun and still am not sick of it running through it again with my buddies.
  • Also, just to save you the frustration now, don't adventure with a 1 man party once you're out of n00b zone. ALWAYS take AI henchmen to fill out your party for what players you're missing. Content in this game ALWAYS assumes you have a maxed out party, even if it's of AIs. The game will go by smoother if you do this
  • Also, once your out of the n00b zones, you'll encounter these things called "missions" which are like dungeons with zero-wipe-tolerance. Missions play a bigger part in advancing the plot, and I highly recommend doing them over questing when available. The only time you should quest over doing a mission is if the quest gives you more XP (most missions are worth 1,000xp, 2k if you do the "bonus"), or if it will unlock skills (Skills are like Gear in WoW: GET SKILLZ!!!!)


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask and myself or others I'm sure would be glad to answer :)
We set Wednesdays on Fire!
#4: 10-13-2010 @ 03:55:50 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1085#1085

Misharum KittumMisharum Kittum

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  • Real Name:Tim
  • Joined:2010-01-22
Another note or two. Guild Wars is as old as Vanilla WoW and it largely shows. Much like how WoW was doing things that were revolutionary for MMOs at the time, Guild Wars was too. Hence the fully instanced world. It also doesn't have all the features that a more modern MMO would, like a true auction house (thought it has several pseudo auction-like market price NPCs). It also doesn't use all the same UI "standards" that WoW set because of this. It isn't nearly as bad as FFXIV for doing things in an unintuitive manner, but there are things you have to read about or be told about if you don't already have experience working with them.

This post was edited by Misharum Kittum on October 13, 2010, 6:08 pm


Justice and Truth
#5: 10-13-2010 @ 04:47:15 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1087#1087

MachVergilMachVergil

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  • Real Name:Adam
  • Joined:2010-01-22
Another note or two. Guild Wars is as old as Vanilla WoW and it largely shows. Much like how WoW was doing things that were revolutionary for MMOs at the time, Guild Wars was too. Hence the fully instanced world. It also doesn't have all the features that a more modern MMO would, like a true auction house (thought it has several pseudo auction-like market price NPCs). It also doesn't use all the same UI "standards" that WoW set because of this. It isn't nearly as bad as FFXIV for doing things in an unintuitive manner, but there are things you have to read about or be told about if you don't already have experience working with them.


Siiiiiggghhhh Here we go again.

I'm about to open of a can of worms but here goes: I disagree with the majority of this post. Guild Wars is not less intuitive than WoW was when I first started playing it, it's just we're used to WoW now. Most of the "normal MMO features" it lacks are because they don't make sense in the game. Like the auction house - there isn't a need for it because crafting/gathering don't even to begin to work like that here. Guild Wars is a very different game, ergo it has very different systems. They aren't bad, they're just different.

The only things about Guild Wars I consider bad are:
  • It's age: It is a 5ish year old game now so yeah some of that shows.
  • The "Keep of the Grass" issue - which is to say you can't jump or climb terrain not indicated as passable. This makes manual pathing a pain sometimes but, at least for me, it doesn't ruin the experience.
  • Disconnect/Interruption intolerance: due to the way the "all instanced world" works, if you get interrupted mid-mission or mid-quest and have to D/C, you'll re-appear in the last town you visited instead of where you were standing. This is also a pain since it makes you complete things when you attempt them. Although, being able to freely warp to any town/outpost you've ever visited in the blink of an eye at no cost KINDA makes up for it.


Otherwise it's systems are just as hard as any other MMO. There is still nothing in GW as confusing as how the Defense mechanic works in WoW, or calculating if a weapon with armor penetration is better or worse than one with higher damage but lacking it, or how Hit-Rating worked with Expertise - all of those things are not really explained in game and you have to learn through reading wikis and forums too.
We set Wednesdays on Fire!
#6: 10-13-2010 @ 06:08:25 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1089#1089

Misharum KittumMisharum Kittum

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  • Real Name:Tim
  • Joined:2010-01-22
I'm not saying anything about mechanics here, and I'm not saying that anything its UI does is bad or wrong. Just that it is a bit different in some things. And while I could recustomize these things in the UI it largely isn't worth the effort in case I'm ever talking about it with someone and they tell me to ctrl+space while targeting a creature and that happens to be something I remapped and don't remember that I did. I get enough of that in LoL when someone tells me to use my "W" to open with and I have to figure which skill that is 'cause I remapped it.
Justice and Truth
#7: 10-15-2010 @ 08:03:14 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1097#1097

St00fSt00f

  • Real Name:Steph
  • Joined:2010-01-22
Personally, I'm just stoked that you guys are even interested in playing (since this is the MMO I play). If you're ever wanting to run through a mission, or would like to help the boy and I slog through Factions (we're having a terrible time with it), let us know -- I know I'm totally up for it.

Couple of my thoughts about the game:

Pathfinding is actually pretty good in most of Prophecies and a chunk of Nightfall. I have issues with it in Factions mostly, though there are some towns in Nightfall that make me want to tear my hair out. Will be glad to be able to hop on things in GW2 though.

They actually fixed the disconnect issue back in 2006 -- it will allow you to reconnect back into instances or missions if you get booted (don't know if it works if you're soloing something). Has happened a couple of times for us in the past, and as long as you can regain that connection, you're golden (I think my laptop lost power once and I was still able to make it back in).

I like that they do weekly updates -- little tweaks here and there to help balance things. I think most of this is because of the huge PvP community that I'm not a part of, but it's still helpful. And they have all the info posted on the Wiki, so if there's any questions about whether or not a skill changed, you can check it out.

I don't have a problem with the controls, but this is the only MMO I play. I will say that if I log a bunch of hours in Fallout 3 and then come back to GW, it takes a little bit to get my button movements down again.
Canadians are my favorite mythological creature.
#8: 10-21-2010 @ 08:45:04 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1140#1140

MachVergilMachVergil

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  • Real Name:Adam
  • Joined:2010-01-22
So most of you might not get this, but once upon a time, one of the most feared/hated pvp builds was W/R based on the Warrior skill "I Will Avenge You." (We called teams based on this build "IWAY" for short). The goal is to take a ranger pet, and intentionally get it killed. Now that said pet is dead, you can keep spamming "I Will Avenge you" because now there is always at least 1 dead ally on the map: their pet, and as you can see, with a high enough Strength stat, we're talking about some real serious health regen and attack speed for 10 seconds.

When Factions came out, the Dev's released something called the "Zaishen Challenge," in which you could build a team of friends and test yourself against bots using a random popular meta-build at the time. These fights are pretty damn tough, and IWAY was among the builds available.

To demonstrate how amazing proper skill synergy can be in Guild Wars, this is a video of an Assassin/Dervish using skills from Factions and Nightfall, to fight a full 5man IWAY team solo. Since the W/R's that the IWAYs are completely dependent on weapon attacks and took no ways to end stances or enchantments, this A/D's build works wonders against them.

This post was edited by machvergil on October 21, 2010, 11:46 am


We set Wednesdays on Fire!
#9: 10-24-2010 @ 01:51:54 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1150#1150

MachVergilMachVergil

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  • Real Name:Adam
  • Joined:2010-01-22
Beat Factions today. Another trophy for the rack. Have Shiro's "Daggers" (they're really short-swords). Kinda bummed I have to beat him again in order to craft the 15K sets from Factions but oh well. Loved making the Emperor dance at the end.

Personally, I'm just stoked that you guys are even interested in playing (since this is the MMO I play). If you're ever wanting to run through a mission, or would like to help the boy and I slog through Factions (we're having a terrible time with it), let us know -- I know I'm totally up for it


I'm still down for this. I need master awards on a good 10 missions still I think and Ren will probably be running through this since he made an Assassin for his first guy. We'll need to make sure we get far enough to set up smoke signals for SIEGE TURTLES.

This post was edited by machvergil on October 25, 2010, 9:52 am


We set Wednesdays on Fire!

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