GameKnights - The Official homepage of Wednesday Night Game Night

Forums 2.0 BETA

Search Forums

Pages:«Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 . . .58 Next»

Viewing Topic: Guild Wars 2 - Page 5
#40: 03-08-2011 @ 01:22:44 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1639#1639

MachVergilMachVergil

MachVergil Photo.
  • Real Name:Adam
  • Joined:2010-01-22

Arena.net made a blog post today as a preview to their PAX East 2011 demo of GW2 speaking about the attribute system in GW2.  The article covers several interesting topics, starting with why they're going with a different system in GW2 than in GW1, and then some of the different builds they've tried, and finally how the system being shown at PAX East 2011 is different than the PAX2010 demo.

It sounds like while the old attribute system made GW1 unique, the developers felt like it resulted in their item rewards being purely cosmetic, which while cool, did result in making it harder on them to add new an interesting items to game, especially compared to other games.  They wanted to move to a system where it was okay for items to have bonus to attributes on them (like in every other MMO), so to do that, they needed a whole new attribute system.

Now personally, I'm a little bummed to hear this.  "The Never Ending Quest For Better Gear" is what drove me away from WoW more than once, and made Guild Wars 1 a welcome safe haven from it. That being said, I have played WoW (and games like it) more than enough to also understand the appeal of these systems and, at their core, they're not bad.  I just hope that GW2 can avoid what WoW did in the expansions where the difference between a max level character and a max level character "in full epics" might as well put another 10 levels between them in power level. 

As for the attribute system itself, it sounds like the developers started out fairly traditional 6-stat mechanic:

  • Strength—increased melee attack damage.
  • Agility—increase ranged attack damage.
  • Intelligence—increased magic attack damage.
  • Vitality—increased health; increased defense against melee attacks.
  • Perception—increased critical strike chance for melee and ranged attacks; increased defense against ranged attacks.
  • Willpower—increased critical strike chance for magic attacks; increased defense against magic attacks.

They dropped this because they found that caused confusion for numerous reasons from UI to defensive targets reducing crit strike chance, even for characters who put points into it.  

At GamesCom and PAX Prime they went with:

  • Strength—increased melee attack damage.
  • Agility—increase ranged attack damage.
  • Intelligence—increased magic attack damage.
  • Vitality—increased health.
  • Perception—increased critical strike chance.
  • Willpower—increased energy.

Which worked well but ran into a key problem: It forced you to specialize in melee damage, ranged damage, or magic damage, and didn't give you a way to switch easily.  While this certainly has been acceptable in other games, that's not what they want in GW2.  They want a Warrior who suddenly stumbles upon a bitchin' Rifle to feel like he/she can investigate playing a Rifle Warrior without having to respec their whole world.  God I could not agree with this goal more.

So at PAX East2011, players will encounter this attribute system:

  • Power—increased attack damage.
  • Precision—increased critical strike chance.
  • Vitality—increased health.
  • Toughness—increased defense/armor.

Which instead of asking the more granular questions about how you do your damage, just asks would you rather Do damage, do crits, have more health, or more mitigation?  The reason they like this system is because it allows the player to build towards what role they want to fill when they play with others rather than how they fill that role.  Do you want to be the tough heart of your party? Take Vitality and/or toughness.  Do you want to be more of a damage dealer?  Take Power and/or Precision.  They also say that this system will allow the min-maxer to enjoy the benefits of focusing fully on one stat, but also allow people who want to be more a jack of all trades to spread themselves out across multiple. 

There are some parts of this I'm still not understanding.  For example they talk about the difference between Power and Precision, stating that overall, Power based characters will do more Damage, but that several character classes might have neat effects they can kick off on a crit, and being able to crit more often might therefore make up for it.  Which... means... crit does more damage sometimes?  They also don't do a convincing job in the article in saying why you'd take Toughness over Vitality.  If toughness reduces the damage you take, but is less effective than just having more health due to degen effects, then why is there debate?  I'm sure this makes more sense when you're actually playing the game.

Still overall I do find that system superior to the one they had at PAX Prime 2010 or even what I've seen in other MMOs. The beauty of stat systems in RPGs should be that they provide a straightforward way to progress and customize your hero, IMO.  The more convoluted that system is, the harder it is for players to make meaningful decisions about their character's progression, which is worse and worse the more difficult it is to undo their decisions. I recall at one point in WoW I was struggling to keep straight my Arms Warrior's Strength, Stamina, Hit Rating, Expertise, Crit, Armor Penetration, Attack Speed, and Resilience. It became virtually impossible for me to look at two pieces of equipment and tell if one was better than the other without downloading one of those fancy damage meter mods and beating a ragdoll in Ironforge for 5 minutes, swapping out gear.  The end result?  No matter what I did, I couldn't make my Arms Warrior as effective in combat against anything, PvP or PvE, than my Death Knight or Protection Paladin were using the same level gear because of how much less those classes feed of their gear-stats to be effective.  In other words: The less a class needed sick stats to kick ass, the better.

In WoW's defense I hear they've since repaired this complaint by committing a major overhaul to the stat system. That being said I also hear that HP totals are still out of control.  That's another talk though.

Another part of what makes me happy about this switch is exemplified by what I'm wrapping my head around right now in Rift.  My main, a Cleric, has a primary build of Justicar/Sentinel/Shaman, which in short, is tank/aoe-healer/melee dps.  He's really mostly the tank, specializing in mace & board gameplay and self-heals through attacking to give him his resilience, with the other two trees providing back up.  A big part of how he works is melee attacks deal "Weapon + X to Y Life Damage" which is to say the damage is magical.  This means that even though he fights in melee, he does magic damage, augmented by spell power.  What I LOVE about this is that I more or less want the same spell-caster-based stats for my armor in my melee mode as I want in my healer mode.  The result though is that the Shaman part of my build is actually kinda useless because it deals physical damage, which I'm not building for at this time, so sooner or later I'll have to do a respec to replace that with something else that feeds of magic and spell power.  Another problem with this is that since Justicar wants to use Mace (or dagger) & Shield and Shields (at least at this point in the game) don't have +Spell Power, I'm shooting my DPS and self-healing in the foot by taking one.  In the end it's okay though because the shield's improvement to my durability (as well as giving me a powerful spell-power based attack) more than make up for the lost DPS with durability.  

In the old stat system for GW2, it looks to me like the Guardian would have a similar problem.  Many of the guardian's attacks appear to deal magic damage, so you'd want Intelligence and Willpower instead of Strength or Perception.  However, down the line you might find out that there's a build or set of skills for Guardian that requires more of a melee approach, making the class more complicated (and possibly frustrating) to understand than Warriors or Rangers who can take comfort in going simply for the more weapon-based traditions of Strength, Perception, Vitality, etc.  It is my hope that with this system, Guardians and Warriors a like looking to make tough damage dealers can just focus on Power and Vitality or Power and Toughness, as opposed to Guardians having this extra spell-based stat they have to worry about.

Anyway that's my two cents on it for now.  Any thoughts?

This post was edited by machvergil on March 8, 2011, 4:31 pm


We set Wednesdays on Fire!
#41: 03-11-2011 @ 08:29:35 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1652#1652

MachVergilMachVergil

MachVergil Photo.
  • Real Name:Adam
  • Joined:2010-01-22

Thief page is up. Interesting skill videos and other information.  Looks like I called it on the concept art in that video being the assassin-like class from a few posts ago :)

Also PAX presentation going LIVE in a few minutes here so I'll probably have more to say after that.

Okay so here's what we got from the presentation:

  • The "Big Announcement" was of course supposed to be the Thief reveal, which of course was ruined already.  Still they did a 30 minute live gameplay demonstration with the Thief that was fun to watch.  This time the player was much more skilled and accompanied at all times by at least 1 Charr Guardian to help keep the thief player out of trouble. The thief looks to be a highly mobile, dangerous combatant at range or in melee, though their durability definately comes from slipping in and out of danger as opposed to being able to withstand direct punishment in any way.  This means I'm not entirely convinced they can "tank" although interviews state that they can still 'seperate and control' monsters from a fight to aid their party.
  • The thief player's friend, the charr guardian, also showed some neat stuff, including impassible lines on the ground, reflective barrier walls, sweeping blade attacks, good stuff all around.
  • Caught a glimpse of the new Lion's Arch.  The dev's said "There are six major cities in the game, 1 for each race and then Lion's Arch is where they all meet up and begin to travel together."  This meant the area they were demoing, which included such known locations as Nebo Terrace and the Ascalon Settlement, is the first place players from all races adventure in the same zone.
  • Saw some sweet examples of dynamic events in action.  The first the players were attacking a centaur siege on Nebo Terrace. As more players joined the fray, the Centaur got tougher, and more came in, without missing a beat.  The players were able to work together without voice chat or even forming traditional parties.  Just by watching what each other were doing, they were cues as to how to execute team work from there.  The second was the pirate attack event that the leaked demo failed at, where we saw at the heart of the attack was a pirate shipmate who was a "veteran" which I read as "elite" in WoW terms.  The guy hit like a truck, beating the crap out of the thief every time she drew his ire, but an evasion out of his reach followed by attacks from the guardians drew him away again.  After a long struggle the players succeeded in taking him down.
  • Things closed out with a preview of the home of the "Vigil." They mentioned here that there are three factions that are organizing the races of Tyria against the Dragons:  The Vigil who are trying to raise an army to counter the the dragons, the something Priory who they likened to "Indiana Jones" in that they ask players to dive the old places of the world for clues or relics to help them defeat the Dragons, and a final group whose name I forget that are more spies and saboteurs.  They then went on to say that players will choose one of these three to work with, and doing so is a huge decision for their "Personal Story" and moving it forward.
  • Thieves also have a slightly different setup for their first 5 skills.  As you probably know at this point, your first 5 skills on  your bar in GW2 are determined by the weapons you have equipped.  Specifically, skills 1-3 are determined by your main hand weapon while skills 4 and 5 are determined by your off-hand weapon/item, with two handed weapons like bows, greastwords, and staves (Funny story - the plural of "staff" was not in Firefox 3's spelling dictionary by default) determining all 5.  With thieves, skills 1&2 are your main hand, 4&5 are your offhand, with 3 being determined by what combo of weapons your wielding, producing what they call "A Dual Skill" (reminiscent of the "dual strike" from Assassins in GW1). In other words, skill 3 while using dual daggers is different than skill 3 while using a dagger and a pistol, or dual pistols, etc.

All and all good stuff, I hope someone posts this video on the webz for re-watching at a later date.

This post was edited by machvergil on March 11, 2011, 5:45 pm


We set Wednesdays on Fire!
#42: 03-14-2011 @ 09:29:23 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1682#1682

MachVergilMachVergil

MachVergil Photo.
  • Real Name:Adam
  • Joined:2010-01-22

Two things.

First, a recording of the PAX EAST show of the Thief is now available for re-watching via Justin.tv.  Feel free to enjoy at your leisure (warning, the presentation doesn't really start until 12:30 - before that is background noise and side conversations).

Second in the midst of the thief excitement, I missed a blog post about Crafting in Guild Wars 2.  At first I greeted this news with chagrin.  If there was one thing I really didn't want to come from WoW to GW2 it was the crafting systems.  However upon reading more about it I think there are some really big improvements that make me want to give it a fair shake before I decry it:

  1. Players have 1 common gathering profession that lets them gather all materials, rather than their gathering profession(s) taking away from their crafting ones.
  2. Gathering nodes are not player exclusive. In other words, if you see an iron node in the distance, another play can't steal it from you, you can still come by and loot it.  Likewise, if you have several people in your group who want the iron, you all can collect from the same node.
  3. The game still has the "Salvage Kits" from Guild Wars 1 to help you gather materials.
  4. The act of crafting is done by using an interface to combine materials to 'discover' recipes, rather than you buying them all from a trainer and ending up with the same recipes as everyone else.  You can still learn some basic recipes from trainers and others are drops off mobs.
  5. They want to make it so that you never have to craft a bunch of worthless items just to level the crafting profession though it's not clear to me how they're going to do that yet.

With that in mind you can look forward to the following crafting professions in Guild Wars 2:

  • Weaponsmith – Weaponsmiths craft melee weapons, such as swords, axes and hammers.
  • Huntsman – Huntsmen craft ranged weapons like bows and pistol, as well as torches and warhorns.
  • Artificer– Artificers craft magical weapons such as staves and scepters
  • Armorsmith – Armorsmiths craft heavy armor pieces.
  • Leatherworker – Leatherworkers craft medium armor pieces.
  • Tailor – Tailors craft light armor pieces.
  • Jewelcrafter – Jewelcrafters craft jewelry, such as rings and necklaces.
  • Cook – Cooks can prepare food which characters can eat for temporary combat buffs.
Edit: Attempting admin-level embed of the GW2 PAXEAST feed.
Watch live video from alienwarearena on Justin.tv
We set Wednesdays on Fire!
#43: 03-14-2011 @ 12:32:57 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1687#1687

MachVergilMachVergil

MachVergil Photo.
  • Real Name:Adam
  • Joined:2010-01-22

Found a recording on YouTube of the Guild Wars 2 panel at PAX EAST 2011.  I have good news and a couple pieces of bad news.

Bad news:

Guild Wars 2 is going to use a "server" structure over the old 'everyone's the same family' model from Guild Wars 1.  I imagine this was required to make the move to fully persistent world. [part 2]

Good News:

We finally know more about PvP in Guild Wars 2 [mentioned in end game discussion of part 2]There will be a few types of pvp:

  1. Competitive PvP: This will be ranked, 5v5 pvp where players will compete against other ranked players, escalating into tournaments and the like.
  2. Pick up PvP: In a way "Just like in a FPS" you will also have drop-in/drop-out pvp matches where you can see what games are going and just drop into them. You "Bring up a server browser, you can see the games running, jump into the game you want, and start playing instantly."
  3. World vs World PvP: "This is gigantic, unbalanced PvP [laughs], this is pvp where 30 people could be fighting 300 at once." This is where we know "servers" will be in place because this server pits your server and two other servers against each other in battle.  The goal of this:  to further help you feel connected to your server's community as you battle against the "nameless, faceless" foes from another server.  "This world pvp is always going on, and you can actually go there and level up from 1 to 80 if you want, you never have to leave to do PvE."  Loot apparently will be acquired as you kill players in world vs world, which diminishes your need to leave it.

Also as a reminder of the "Sidekicking system" - If a higher level player returns to lower level content to easy mode it, that player will be "Sidekicked down" to that level.  Likewise, players can invite their lower level friends to their content and "Side kick up" them to their level for that content.

Also the Guild Wars 2 "Marketplace" is both an auction house, and the 'reverse' - which is to say not just can you post "I'm selling this at this price" you can also post "I want to buy this at this price." Neither buyer nor seller needs to stand around and wait for either transaction to happen.

Panel Videos: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4


We set Wednesdays on Fire!
#44: 03-14-2011 @ 12:47:37 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1688#1688

St00fSt00f

  • Real Name:Steph
  • Joined:2010-01-22

This is what I was worried about. Of course, in order to do persistant worlds you need servers.  I understand that.  I just hope it doesn't end up splitting up our group because there's no more room on a server.  Or we have to create a bunch of alts in order to play with each other. Gah.


Canadians are my favorite mythological creature.
#45: 03-14-2011 @ 01:11:32 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1689#1689

MachVergilMachVergil

MachVergil Photo.
  • Real Name:Adam
  • Joined:2010-01-22

This is what I was worried about. Of course, in order to do persistant worlds you need servers.  I understand that.  I just hope it doesn't end up splitting up our group because there's no more room on a server.  Or we have to create a bunch of alts in order to play with each other. Gah.

Well the good news is GW2 doesn't have a faction system.  There were basically two factors that drove us to play on different servers in WoW:

  1. Faction:  Horde or Alliance?
  2. Type: PvP server vs PvE server and/or is it an RP server?

There were other little factors too (like time zone or if there's a pre-established community going for a certain server), but usually those were the big kickers. However since Guild Wars 2's World PvP sounds like it's something you opt into, and is not a server-made decision, that eliminates the PvP vs PvE server distinction.  Further, the game lacks a faction system, so it's not like Dominion wanting to roll Asuran means he can't play with me if I roll a human. 

In theory, so long as we all agree in advance to roll on the same server, this should not be a problem. I say should, knowing full well that there's that other distinction, the "pre-established communities" that might prove to be the real thorn, but I'm going to be optimistic for now and just say we'll work through it.

This post was edited by machvergil on March 14, 2011, 4:12 pm


We set Wednesdays on Fire!
#46: 03-14-2011 @ 02:39:30 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1690#1690

Misharum KittumMisharum Kittum

Misharum Kittum Photo.
  • Real Name:Tim
  • Joined:2010-01-22

As long as we all play on the same server I'm happy. Once they release server lists, the sooner we pick one probably the better. I'll let AS know which one we're rolling on in case the folks who are interested there want someone they're vaguely aware exist on the internet as friends-of-friends to do stuff with, though I'll guarantee they'll only be interested in RP servers should there be such a think in GW2.


Justice and Truth
#47: 04-18-2011 @ 10:36:54 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1851#1851

MachVergilMachVergil

MachVergil Photo.
  • Real Name:Adam
  • Joined:2010-01-22

CHARR WEEK IS THIS WEEK.  Prepare to feast upon fresh lore about GW2's largest, furriest, playable race.

"The searing is ancient history, get over it."
-Human Peasant in Divinity's Reach

Charr Starting Zone article.

Writing the Charr article, complete with audio samples, HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

Updated Charr Race page. 

Legions of the Charr article, complete with interesting story within.

This post was edited by machvergil on April 22, 2011, 1:43 pm


We set Wednesdays on Fire!
#48: 04-22-2011 @ 10:48:01 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1870#1870

MachVergilMachVergil

MachVergil Photo.
  • Real Name:Adam
  • Joined:2010-01-22

Charr week articles are posted, and you'll find all links in the above post.  It's good stuff, and personally I feel like if I ever roll a Charr my recation is going to be "This is what rolling Horde should have felt like in WoW."  Arena.net isn't removing the Charr's fangs, they're still vicious, warloving beasts of Guild Wars 1, they've just shrugged off their moronic worship of evil deities and male dominated society.  The Charr definitely sound like the race for anyone who wants an RP excuse to be a violent asshole though that's clearly not their only thing.

Personally, I can totally see myself playing an Iron Legion Warrior.


We set Wednesdays on Fire!
#49: 04-22-2011 @ 11:20:17 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=1871#1871

Misharum KittumMisharum Kittum

Misharum Kittum Photo.
  • Real Name:Tim
  • Joined:2010-01-22

Damn, those Charr screen shots are the best looking of the bunch. Color me impressed.


Justice and Truth

Pages:«Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 . . .58 Next»