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#40: 09-23-2010 @ 08:43:54 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=930#930

DominionDominion

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  • Real Name:Mark
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I think I might stop playing Zil for this and switch back to Twitch or possibly pick up Vlad. Nidalee kinda fills our needed support role and showing up with Zil means we're down an extra dpser. I still like Zil but I'm starting to dislike his late game hurting power which is negligible since Time Bomb really doesn't have any umph late game. Chronoshift is awesome but at the sametime I finding it to be pointless in some of our battles. Either that or I just need to learn to use it more correctly, which I don't doubt I'm failing to properly place it a lot of times. Just seems like we have too much support and not enough other CC and damaging power. If I switched to Vlad or Twitch it adds some more hurting power and Twitch does have a slow with Debilitating Poison. I don't want to necessarily take Vlad since I know Ren likes to play him every now and then. Twitch I'm still slightly bothered by since a smart team can easily counter him (which really just means I need to learn to sneak around the map faster, probably grab teleport and ghost) and, as stated, he is so damned fragile.

So yeah, I'm building some runes for Twitch at the moment. The runes I had for Zil kinda work for Vlad but if I'm gonna get him I'll need to plunk down for riot points, which I really don't mind since there's some other stuff I wanted to get, cause I certainly am not getting 6300 IP anytime soon.

This post was edited by Dominion on September 23, 2010, 10:45 am


"Video games are bad for you? That's what they said about rock and roll." Shigeru Miyamoto
#41: 09-23-2010 @ 09:02:14 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=932#932

MachVergilMachVergil

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  • Real Name:Adam
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I think I might stop playing Zil for this and switch back to Twitch or possibly pick up Vlad. Nidalee kinda fills our needed support role and showing up with Zil means we're down an extra dpser


This is also something I was considering. We probably don't want two support champs on the field unless they bring something real solid because, like you said, it's a loss in damage output (and in some cases durability).

Stealth and Poison are both powerful, difficult to counter abilities unless the team we're up against is knee deep in cleanse and sight wards, so twitch makes sense.

That being said I don't think that you're a bad Zil player, it's just that lag and/or communication problems get in the way of you being as effective with him as you could be. It's easy for us to not notice you've chorno-shifted us until after we've fallen back, and it's easy for the slightest amount of lag to cause that same ability to not go off when you need it most.
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#42: 09-23-2010 @ 09:05:50 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=933#933

DominionDominion

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I need to directly plug in my ethernet cable to my router next time we play to see if it's my wireless fucking up or if it really is Comcast.
"Video games are bad for you? That's what they said about rock and roll." Shigeru Miyamoto
#43: 09-23-2010 @ 09:35:23 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=935#935

Misharum KittumMisharum Kittum

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I'm definitely willing to try Pantheon, though I'm not particularly good at playing melee at this point. Which makes Pantheon nice what with his spear and all. I've got a long way to go on him, though, and I don't have a fully functional rune build for him yet.
Justice and Truth
#44: 09-23-2010 @ 09:43:33 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=936#936

MachVergilMachVergil

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Course now I'm also remembering how much more potent CC that force enemies out of position, like Singed's shield, Urgot's transfer, and Blitz's arm can be.

So let's see, there's a few different types of CC in this game... we got roots, slows, stuns, suppressions (which are stuns you can't cleanse out of like Infinite Duress), tuants, and grab n' pulls (which might be better to call 'relocates'?), and walls.

With Rammus, Twitch, and Pantheon we've got slows, stuns and taunts all fired up and ready to go. Rammus's ball means we should be good on initiate so we might not need relocates. Do we need more CC at that point or more damage? Maybe spell damage? More durability? Thoughts?
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#45: 09-23-2010 @ 09:59:31 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=937#937

Misharum KittumMisharum Kittum

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I'm tempted to make a smurfing account right now while Nidalee is free, gank me some noobs, and when I have enough IP buy Pantheon again so I can learn him while not in the high level bracket.
Justice and Truth
#46: 09-23-2010 @ 10:48:14 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=938#938

DominionDominion

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I'm tempted to make a smurfing account right now while Nidalee is free, gank me some noobs, and when I have enough IP buy Pantheon again so I can learn him while not in the high level bracket.


I've thought about making a smurfing account just to try out new champs in PvP. I always feel bad trying out champs I haven't played before at my level cause it means being a possible detriment to my team. Course I also feel bad if I made a smurf account cause I'm then going into PvP with a bit more experience against possible complete noob enemies. Plus while I could win, those IP are not going to my main account and therefor a potential waste of time.

Course now I'm also remembering how much more potent CC that force enemies out of position, like Singed's shield, Urgot's transfer, and Blitz's arm can be.


If Glenn wanted to play something else besides Rammus I was gonna say I'll play Gragas. Gragas is a nice tank and between body slam and explosive cask it really throws a team off. Unfortunately his damage output is fairly low, even if I went AP he's nowhere near damaging as some other champs so I'd really only want to go with him as tank.
"Video games are bad for you? That's what they said about rock and roll." Shigeru Miyamoto
#47: 09-23-2010 @ 11:05:20 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=940#940

MachVergilMachVergil

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Well fuck:
This Patch:
We overhauled how 'team strength' (or 'team elo') is calculated. While the details of how we did this are somewhat complicated, the changes you should expect to see are:
- If you have a team with players of widely different elo (especially a premade), the team will face harder opponents now. This is because we ran analysis and discovered that the 'carry effect' (i.e. the benefit of one very strong player on your team) is larger than the 'feeder effect' (i.e. the cost of having a really bad player on your team). Anecdotally, this is a lot of why people used to stomp when they matched up with their decently good friends who didn't play much...

- If you have a team with players of very similar elo, especially a premade, you will tend to get easier opponents now. We used to overrate similar-elo teams, and have corrected this problem. Every notice how your most try-hard pairings tended to get you killed?

- While this is mostly an improvement to premade cases in terms of accurately rating their advantage... it does slightly improve pub matching as well.

- Blue team on summoner's rift ONLY is considered as having an advantage, and will tend to be the weaker of the two teams now to even things out. This advantage is being rated at about 25 elo points. We reached this conclusion by using various statistical techniques on a very large set of games. We aren't sure why this is the case, but hey, the data tells us it in the case. Prevailing theories of this advantage are related to camera view (blue has better 'aggressive' camera view since you can see more to the north), nashor escape routes (blue has 3, purple has 2), and blue middle tower coverage (purple cant run in front of it, while blue can run in front of purple tower from the river).

Next Patch:
- We will be improving the matchmaking algorithm to more tightly balance teams within pools of players. It will reduce the average difference in elo between teams down from 20 to about 5. This will represent a small improvement in overall match quality.

FAQ
If you MOSTLY matchmade with your 'bad' friends before the patch, you guys will likely find overly hard matches now for 5-10 games.

If you MOSTLY matchmade with other 'pro' friends before the patch, you guys will likely find overly easy matches now for 5-10 games.

These situations only apply if you played 75%+ games with a particular group like that.

taken from : The forums


This could in fact be what our problem as been this week.

As to the other comments:
I'm tempted to make a smurfing account right now while Nidalee is free, gank me some noobs, and when I have enough IP buy Pantheon again so I can learn him while not in the high level bracket.


I'm of mixed feelings on this. Yeah, I think it's safe to say a smurf account is how a lot of players do exactly what you're talking about involving trying out new champs. However, I personally think that the lessons you'd learn trying out said new champ against low elo players would be of little extra value than you'd get against players in our current bracket - the result is you still won't be ready for our bracket play when you come back to it.

Personally I feel that our fun factor on a given game could be greatly adjusted if we go into it with a goal. If our goal is "We want first win of the day" then we probably should be bringing out our A-game champs and running the strats that work'd for us in the past. However, I also think it'd probably be good for us to sometimes have "screwing around" games where we queue up and we all feel free to try someone new. That way, if we lose, we won't get butt hurt about it because we knew that might happen, and we won't get upset at each other because we also knew we were thinking about scrubbin' it.

This post was edited by machvergil on September 23, 2010, 2:25 pm


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#48: 09-23-2010 @ 11:19:27 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=941#941

DominionDominion

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Okay so am I reading this wrong? If you guys are okay, not great but okay, and you just get one or two awesome guys on your team, you get paired with an even more awesome team? So overall your team rating is shit so guess what you get to play against an even better team so your rating becomes even more shit since you'll likely lose? How does this make sense?

Plus this gives zero reason to premake with 4 people. Hey you guys are good but here's this other dude who is likely to suck so guess what you get a shit team mate, your rating is out of wack, so here is an awesome team to rofl stomp you. I'm really confused.

And yeah I wouldn't doubt our normal teams elos do not match up well. Not in the sense that "ZOMG ADAM YOU SUCK" ( < 3 ) but in the sense that some folks play more often so their elo fluctuates up and down more.

EDIT: This board is against love and peace since it won't let me put < 3 without a space.

This post was edited by Dominion on September 23, 2010, 1:27 pm


"Video games are bad for you? That's what they said about rock and roll." Shigeru Miyamoto
#49: 09-23-2010 @ 11:43:04 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=945#945

MachVergilMachVergil

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Okay so am I reading this wrong? If you guys are okay, not great but okay, and you just get one or two awesome guys on your team, you get paired with an even more awesome team? So overall your team rating is shit so guess what you get to play against an even better team so your rating becomes even more shit since you'll likely lose? How does this make sense?


How I read it is, let's say you have two teams whose combined average elo (and I really have no clue how they figure this out, I'm just guessing) is 1000.

On the blue team, you have 5 players who are elo 1000. They are a 5man org.

On the purple team you have 5 players whose elos are 2000, 700, 1300, 500, 500. This still averages out to 1000.

What they're trying to say, and I've heard several people with more than 1000 wins under their belt say this too, that the 2000elo guy's skill superiority will allow him to carry his entire team to victory regardless of the feeding the 500s will do NEARLY EVERY TIME, especially if the 2000elo guy's a DPS carry.

So, rather than actually have those two teams fight, the elo system is weighing more heavily on the higher ranked members of your team. This change will result in your org team facing harder matches than you're used to if you normally play in mixed elo games.

I understand the logic behind this move, it just so happens that our group it the exact kind of make up that would put us in front of the bus here.




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