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Viewing Topic: Android: Netrunner (a TCG) - Page 1
#0: 07-21-2013 @ 04:16:58 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=6079#6079

BountyHunterSAxBountyHunterSAx

  • Real Name:Ahmad Rasheed
  • Joined:2011-06-29

I just got back from the best trip to a gamestore I've had in as long as I can remember at "The Labyrinth" -- this place is family-friendly/family-oriented and boasts a wide selection of games, and still does many of the more well known events (like Friday Night Magic, D&D on wednesdays, etc.). Today, and apparently every 3rd sunday of the month, they were demo-ing "Android: Netrunner" and already I'm itching to get my hands on it :).


It'd be impossible for me to properly explain the game without having it in front of me or using pictures to explain what I'm talking about. So rather than try and fail, I'll instead say a few of the things that make me so interested and excited about it.

1.) Like "The Healing Blade", this is an Asymmetrical game. One player runs the Corporation, the other the Runner (hacker). They play differently, have different strengths, goals, and weaknesses.

2.) Mindgames/hidden information. Much like in "Yu Gi Oh", the corporation plays many of its cards facedown. When deciding (as the Runner) whether to hack my opponents R&D (library), his hand, or some auxiliary server, I could be staring at a facedown protection program ('Ice') in each lane. . . having to guess whether or not it's safe. And he pays the cost to reveal it optionally when I attack, which adds to the complexity.


3.) Barrier to Entry is very low.   The core set of cards for this game gives you one of every card, guaranteed, for all the factions (like colors in MtG). There are expansions (~$10-15 each, 6 total out now), and they use the same setup. For ~$100-$150, you could own every card the game has to offer. Also? The core set alone is enough to make 3-4 decks so that you and a friend can play together quite easily.

4.) Gameplay/execution is not trivial. Seriously, I didn't realize just how used to "easy to play" CCG's I'd gotten. Rather than having set phases so that your turn becomes mechanical, each turn you have 4 actions. Actions can be used to draw cards, to gain a credit, to place a card on the board, to initiate an attack on the corporation ("run"/hack), etc. Having to balance all this out takes even a simple starter deck and makes it entertaining to play -- victory comes from more than just having bought the most OP cards for 3-mana cost.


Finally, for those of you curious about what the game looks like and how it plays out, here's a 20minute vid that I *think* is official but regardless is a very thorough introduction and "walkthrough" of the gameplay. Enjoy ;).

-AHMAD



-AHMAD


#1: 06-01-2014 @ 04:39:50 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=8050#8050

BountyHunterSAxBountyHunterSAx

  • Real Name:Ahmad Rasheed
  • Joined:2011-06-29

So, in large part thanks to Dominion, I've become freshly-interesting in playing more A:NR. I've been sitting on the decision for a while and - thanks to graduation money meaning I've actually got a little bit of cash to get myself something with, I've decided to pick up a data pack or two, trying to figure out which ones would be best. Probably will end up going Creation and Control and maybe Opening Moves.

But cooler than that, I've decided to pick up Netrunner Playmats :). Will make the game easier to teach newbies, which (a), I've done a lot of already and (b) I anticipate doing more of in Latrobe. Anyway check out the images:

 



-AHMAD


#2: 06-02-2014 @ 07:26:51 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=8054#8054

DominionDominion

Dominion Photo.
  • Real Name:Mark
  • Joined:2010-01-22

Those mats look nice! Only thing that'd probably look better is if the corp side mentioned what servers are central servers (though it's kinda easy to just say the "non-remote" ones). Also if it had some faded extra clicks for corp since sometimes you just get more.

I've actually got a little bit of cash to get myself something with, I've decided to pick up a data pack or two, trying to figure out which ones would be best. Probably will end up going Creation and Control and maybe Opening Moves.

I'd highly recommend getting What Lies Ahead. It comes with a new agenda for every corp which will give you some leeway with making corp decks and not being stuck with having to make some decks with suboptimal agendas (Private Security Force and Priority Requisition aren't fantastic with all decks). Plus it gives you Plascrete Carapace which, stupidly, you kinda need as a magic bullet if you're expecting meat damage (can get around it with other cards but this is the quickest and easiest way to combat it). If you do get Opening Moves as well then you're set for having a nice variety of agendas for your corp decks. I guess OM does give you a nice variety of agendas as well. Up to you really. Creation and Control is pretty solid and gets you a nice amount of cards for the price. The subreddit /r/netrunner has a nice buying guide to help you out. I followed it for the most part as I slowly built up my small collection.


"Video games are bad for you? That's what they said about rock and roll." Shigeru Miyamoto
#3: 06-22-2014 @ 09:44:59 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=8195#8195

BountyHunterSAxBountyHunterSAx

  • Real Name:Ahmad Rasheed
  • Joined:2011-06-29

Holy SHIT!

So, watched a bit of Archer before going to bed. The makers of Netrunner must watch the show. I'd already been told this was the case for one card:

(Note the flavor-text quote). But then, this one I've only heard about, haven't seen it yet for myself. But within literally one minute I saw something:

Archer's mom IS Director Haas!!!

 

It is admittedly not perfect, but wow does the facial structure and hair look incredibly similar.

 

-AHMAD


#4: 06-23-2014 @ 07:48:11 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=8197#8197

DominionDominion

Dominion Photo.
  • Real Name:Mark
  • Joined:2010-01-22

The game has a lot of fun references sprinkled throughout. One of the new corporation identities coming out next cycle is a Firefly reference to the Blue Sun Corporation.

I also just love the idea of the card. Lot of fun deck designs around this.


"Video games are bad for you? That's what they said about rock and roll." Shigeru Miyamoto
#5: 06-23-2014 @ 10:32:35 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=8205#8205

BountyHunterSAxBountyHunterSAx

  • Real Name:Ahmad Rasheed
  • Joined:2011-06-29

Cool reference for sure but I... I'm not gonna lie to you, I think that corp ID is broken as all hell.

Seriously, just being able to pull a card off the board into HQ for free once per turn would have been fantastic. We've got ice like Himitsu-Bako that lets you pay 2creds for the privilege. But this....I'm not sure the devs thought this through properly; since it seems like the unilaterally "best" option for any weyland corp ever.

Adonis Campaign now is a must-trash instead of a may-trash. Bad Publicity is now no longer a factor (Elizabeth Mills ->rez for 2 and remove a bad pub. Pull to hand, gain 2 repeat.). I've had games where the whole balance was determined specifically because Weyland got to do some hideously powerful things . . .but left this growing vulnerability of bad pub to pay for it.

Oversight AI + janus1.0 or Curtain Wall. Or Hadrians Wall. Or hell, pick your super-strong ice. Open Oversight AI + Hadrians. Drop a quick agenda behind it. Then boost your income by 10-15 creds to salvage.

Use a "surprise-gotcha" ice rez, then pull it back for free to keep the runner guessing.


Don't misunderstand, it's not that I think this makes the corp undefeatable; but that it's way out of step with the power-level of corp IDs in general. I mean, say you run 9 transactions with Weyland's core ID, you'll earn 9 credits throughout the game, one at a time, if you draw and play all nine. This guy can offer you a nice steady stream of income or, with the right comboes, ludicrous burst income and infinite drip-income. Another way to put it: Security Subcontract was an asset that *trashed* your ice, AND cost you a click to gian 4 credits. Clearly, the power curve has shifted.

Meanwhile, the Jinteki get to lower the required agenda points to win from 7 to 6. . . . for both players.



I'm hoping they'll make some modifications to this before release, like they did with "The Collective". . . well maybe not the SAME way; since in the end they never released that as a real card.

-AHMAD


#6: 06-24-2014 @ 08:10:08 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=8207#8207

DominionDominion

Dominion Photo.
  • Real Name:Mark
  • Joined:2010-01-22

I'm not as good at theorycrafting as others so I'm probably not gonna convince you otherwise but I don't think it's OP. Powerful? Yes, but not OP.

it seems like the unilaterally "best" option for any weyland corp ever.

I disagree. You're making a very different deck if you're running this. A Blue Sun deck is not gonna be the same as a Building a Better World deck. This is mostly for making a big ice deck and running your economy on assets. If you're thinking it's best because it gives tons of credits then I'm wondering how poor you thought Weyland was before. I've never seen a Weyland deck have issues with economy so this is just a different way of getting lots of credits.

Oversight AI + janus1.0 or Curtain Wall. Or Hadrians Wall. Or hell, pick your super-strong ice. Open Oversight AI + Hadrians. Drop a quick agenda behind it. Then boost your income by 10-15 creds to salvage.

It is a good combo! But you're talking about getting those perfect cards. I can with win with perfect cards in current decks. I could be GRNDL with SEA Source + Scorch. Pretty easy to win early game this way. Or just give me two scorches and wait for me to get tons of cash and I'll flatline you. So yeah it's a good combo but plenty of decks have good combos. Doesn't make them OP. Plus if you don't get Oversight AI you now have to wait for your opponent to run on servers before you can rez that ice. If you don't have the cash now, then you're not rezzing it. If you do have oversight AI, you better be sure I don't have that breaker and the cash, otherwise that ice is gone. More often then not, you're not gonna have the correct cards to pull it off the combo at the right time.

Adonis Campaign now is a must-trash instead of a may-trash.

And there's your catch. Your opponent can trash it. Plus if you want to keep that recursion of installing and rezzing up, you have to give up those last 3 credits because you have to pull it back before it's trashed from using all it's credits. Asset economy means your opponent can control your income and that can widely swing your game. I've played plenty of games where I've gotten my assets trashed and I'm running on low a lot of the game. Again, much different from current Weyland where it's largely Operation card based and you have almost no worry of your opponent trashing cards.

Bad Publicity is now no longer a factor (Elizabeth Mills ->rez for 2 and remove a bad pub. Pull to hand, gain 2 repeat.)

Okay but that's a fair amount of clicks and rezzing for just getting rid of bad pub. I still think you overvalue BP. Is it bad for corp? Yeah but your Weyland, you shouldn't care about BP. Plus, you're talking about all these pull backs for your asset economy already and if you add Elizabeth into this mix you have a lot you're relying on to bring back. You can only pull one card back a turn. Are you gonna keep Elizabeth out while you pull back economy? Awesome, I'll trash her for 1 credit since you probably put her behind a weakly defended server. I don't think you're gonna throw her behind that iced up server since that's where you want your agendas or your Adonis or Eve.

Meanwhile, the Jinteki get to lower the required agenda points to win from 7 to 6. . . . for both players.

You act like that's not a good identity. It's not OP certainly but it's well balanced. I've played against it and I'm probably more annoyed by it then any other Jinteki. Why? Cause it puts a lot of pressure on the runner to win early. Corp has the advantage early game. I can't tell you the number of times I've had 4 agenda points scored and had a 2 point agenda in my hand thinking "I could score this card easy and win this game... if I just had 1 more point". On the flipside, yes, the runner can win sooner too. However I think it's much more to the Corp's advantage since the runner has to get lucky to win that early. It's a fast corp deck, especially since it's only 40 cards which helps with the early game advantage. Plus, you're already Jinteki, full of those nasty traps which makes the runner think twice before running anyways.

I'm not gonna disagree with you that Blue Sun is a powerful ID. It is quite good but it's not as OP as you're making it sound. It's no different then other powerful ID's, they each have their weakness. I think if they wanted to balance it a bit they could reduce the influence from 15 to 10. That way, yeah, you could splash Janus and Adonis to get that rez money back... but you're only getting two each of those cards.

This post was edited by Dominion on June 24, 2014, 10:15 am


"Video games are bad for you? That's what they said about rock and roll." Shigeru Miyamoto
#7: 06-24-2014 @ 09:03:18 am
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=8208#8208

BountyHunterSAxBountyHunterSAx

  • Real Name:Ahmad Rasheed
  • Joined:2011-06-29

So, not gonna lie to you; I didn't expect to be talked out of my opinion of Blue Sun. But...you've actually managed it rather beautifully.

It doesn't seem broken when you lay it down like that. Blue Sun puts pressure on the runner to run and *trash* assets more aggressively than they otherwise might have. All things considered, this is not such a bad thing. I haven't felt the urge to play Whizzard in ages...and against Blue Sun I could see that changing.

I *do* still believe it's a bit too powerful, in a "power-creep" sort of way. If for no other reason than that it opens up too many options at once. I kinda wish it only did one or two things. I'd have vastly preferred it if it were just ONE thing:

1.) You may trash a rezzed card to gain credits equal to its rez cost.
OR
2.) You may return a rezzed card to HQ.

Alternatively, do both but at least have it cost the corp some tempo:
3.) You may lose a click to return rezzed card to HQ and gain creds up to rez cost.

I feel like [1] and [2] would be more in-line with the power level of "gain a credit when you install a card" -- arguably one of the strongest core-ID abilities already.

Of course, I feel like returning ice and repositioning it belongs to the Jinteki more than it does to Weyland (Chum, Inazuma, whirlpool, data mine, etc. -- all rely on positioning vis-a-vis other ice). But that's another story.



But then - I've also got to accept that things have changed since 2012 as will tend to happen with 2-3 years of card releases. Gotta adapt to the changing cardpool and not cry-foul just because there's something new.

-AHMAD

 

*EDIT*: Just noticed what you'd said at the end and I think that's beautfiul. Tightening the influence noose would be an *elegant* way to allay many of my issues. You'll want 3 howards, 3 eves, 3 adonis', 2-3 of HB's choiciest bioroid-ices. . . and now you've got to pick only 3-4 of those cards TOTAL. Yessir, an influence budget of 5-10 would be a *wonderful* pre-release tweak.

This post was edited by BountyHunterSAx on June 24, 2014, 12:06 pm


#8: 06-28-2014 @ 05:50:27 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=8253#8253

BountyHunterSAxBountyHunterSAx

  • Real Name:Ahmad Rasheed
  • Joined:2011-06-29

So - as many of you know - I've found a nice FLGS here in Latrobe and have been making an effort to try and get enough people interested in Netrunner and get a scene going. Over the last couple weeks I've taught and demoed the game to at least 6-7 people - invariably to a positive reception - but then these weren't people who I felt would continue to hang out at the store much as 'regulars'.

In just the last three days, I've had amazing success, and I kinda wanted to update y'all on it. First off, the playmats (pictures a few posts above) came in. And they look gorgeous :). Using these, I got my fellow resident, Frank, to try the game out. He enjoys it a lot; though if I'm honest he probably would enjoy a Jinteki corp way more than the Weyland and NBN ones I have built. Still, we've played at least 10-15 games in the last 3-4 days, so it's good to know that I'll have a "dueling buddy" at the very least. And one who's a regular at the store nonetheless!

Then a couple days ago I brought my playmats with me to the store, and got a few of the regulars (who were between games of Warmachine at the time) to try it out. During a rather intense second game, with loads of bluffing, maniacal laughing, and animated "Click for credits, Click to run on your HQ" -- "Oh SHIT it's on now!" style banter,  many others in the store naturally gathered around during their usual milling and started to watch. Nothing quite like social-proofing to cause exposure of a game.

Today, though, was one of the biggest steps. It was a pretty slow morning, and the owner of the store decided he'd be down with "giving it a try". He loved the playmats; I think that's what roped him in at first, to be honest. But once we had a game going and he started realizing just how bold a runner he could be, he really got into it. He lost his first game, and was almost immediately up for a second. Then my neighbor came by the store -- so I had him play against the Owner. Meanwhile, I used my OTHER two decks to play simultaneously against a different store-regular.

Considering that when I first came here nobody at this store had touched the game and few had even heard the name before, I can't help but feel a little excited to think that we had 2-4 people playing simultaneously two games in a row today. That we had someone playing netrunner at all times for about 7 hours today.


Super excited :). I've got my fingers crossed and hope things hold up this way. SInce these guys are into miniature-gaming, the $40 entry price to Netrunner is super-cheap by comparison. Hell, even if you get the core ($40), two critical data packs ($30), and one of the deluxe data packs ($30), that's about the price they end up paying for 2-3 new army models for a tabletop game.

So yeah, these three (all of them regulars of the store) were talking about possibly picking up a core set and wondering if/when it'd be restocked at the store. God-willing, things hold and in a week or two I find somebody ELSE bringing a new deck for me to play against.

-AHMAD


#9: 08-17-2014 @ 04:14:01 pm
Link to this Post: http://www.machvergil.com/gamenight/messages.php?go=8568#8568

BountyHunterSAxBountyHunterSAx

  • Real Name:Ahmad Rasheed
  • Joined:2011-06-29

[[Warning: long post. tl;dr - I am enjoying netrunner and built a new deck which is interesting. Also the deck-building process was more collaborative than I've done before which was very entertaining and social. Deck works okay, and very well in current meta. Hooray.]]

So, now that we've got a local scene of some 10-12 people with their own Netrunner cards, I've actually been able to just *luxuriate* in coming up with fancy and/or fun decks with the advantage of being able to have a ready source of new people/decks to try them against. But something I realize I've never done is admitted someone else into my deck-building process. Where I build a deck, but am constantly welcoming their advice/input and "arguing" for which cards I think make or don't make the cut with them collaboratively rather than just soloing it and then maybe afterwards asking what to tweak.

Just for fun, I came up with a combo:

Joshua B
John Masanori
Data Leak Reversal
Underworld Contact x2
"+1 link"
Crash Space
New Angeles City Hall,


The plan? 0.) Get 2 credits 1.) Activate Joshua B (5 clicks).   2.) Run and fail, take a Masanori tag.  3.) Use Data Leak Reversal 3 times to trash 3 R&D cards. 4.) Remove masanori tag with crash space.  5.) Remove Joshua B tag with New Angeles City Hall. Turn.

Net effect: "Mill for 3, skip turn. Go."

Of course, this deck was a failure. It was DESIGNED to be a failure, practically speaking. A 7-8 card combo of which one of the components required BOTH 2 / 3 copies of a card from your deck . . . that doesn't even instantly win? Yeah, that's atrocious.

It was also undeniably fun. Then someone points out the obvious: "Do you really need Joshua B for the extra click? Why not just mill for 2?"

New combo:

John Masanori
Data Link Reversal
Crash Space

O_O Wow. That is about a million times more manageable to get set up and running!


I don't really collaboratively deckbuild this one for the most part though. My first variant is a Reina variant. And then after that I realize it works better as an Andromeda deck since I'm only using about 13-15 influence of anarch cards. The logic is simple: I don't need to run often. I need to set up, and put massive pressure on the corp by giving them a ticking clock. Then I need to EVENTUALLY make a monster archive run.

If you are sitting across the board from a runner who knocks out two random cards a turn, that's a scary amount of risk to be bleeding into the archive. Now, there's a flip side to this: what if the agendas the corp needs have already been drawn? The corp watches you trashing his deck but is like: "Fine, you're skpping your turns? I'll just install this half-assed guarded agenda. 3-4 of these and I get my 7 points and win." After all, milling a 45 card deck two cards + a corp-draw at a time takes 10-15 turns! And that's ignoring the fact that you have to set up the apparatus first. . . and ideally set up your income (three to five more cards) as well.


That's where the criminal half of the deck comes in. Criminal decks are very good at making the corp cry for the first 5-10 turns. For putting up lots of pressure with minimal cards needed. A full suite of 6 AI breakers + 3 inside jobs to bypass an ice once each gives me LOADS of potential to 'gut' the first agenda or two from under the corp's nose when he starts to try to score them. Better yet, with all the open deck space not taken up by a 'standard' breaker rig, I can afford SIX, count'em SIX reveal/expose cards. So *when* I run, I know i'm setting the corp back 1-3 of those points he needed and 1-3  of those early agneda cards.

In short: I have the tools to harass the corp early, and then once they hit their 'stable' phase, the tools to pressure endlessly with milling. I have tools that allow for a 1 or 2 time "hail mary" run on a big remote . . . and the expose effects to know when that hail mary has to happen.



It's an interesting deck. I don't think it's the best deck or anything like that, but it's very good. Best of all, a good half the playerbase at my store value traps a little too highly. This tacitly means that even when my deck isn't dealing with the super-server hail-mary run for which the infiltration was designed 'as intended', I *STILL* can use the extra exposes to securely avoid 2-4 traps on average.
Face-checking 2 possible-traps or possible-agendas over the course of a game is DRAMATICALLY less back-breaking than face-checking 5 of them.


[Also tl:dr]

I'm debating whether or not to discontinue playing this deck till our tournament in a month, so I can whip it out as a total surprise to half the players. I don't think I will; I don't want to win badly enough to metagame that hard and not play a fun deck. But then, there's always other 'crazy' ideas . . .

-AHMAD


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